The Royal Navy and Royal Air Force put on a “formidable display of firepower with United States allies against a specially prepared ex-US Navy warship in the North Atlantic”.
The exercise, named Atlantic Thunder, was the first of its type for the Royal Navy in 18 years and took place alongside US Navy and US Air Force counterparts.
“It was a rare live test of complex weapons against a realistic target far out to sea and tested the power and accuracy of naval and air forces, giving allies real-world experience of hitting targets at sea from long range and proving the capability of several advanced warfighting and targeting techniques.”
HMS Westminster, a Wildcat helicopter and three Typhoon jets unleashed "fire and fury" at decommissioned American frigate USS Boone using an array of high-powered weaponry. pic.twitter.com/Lr0I7sIp9M
— George Allison (@geoallison) September 23, 2022
Type 23 frigate HMS Westminster fired two Harpoon anti-ship missiles at the same time as a US P-8 Poseidon patrol aircraft launched one of its own – 660kg of high explosive striking ex-USS Boone simultaneously.
The frigate’s Wildcat helicopter quickly followed, punching Martlet air-to-surface missiles into the Boone’s hull. This was the first firing of the Fleet Air Arm’s new anti-ship weapon against a realistic target at sea – to this point Martlet had only been used against purpose-built targets.
The Wildcat’s crew stayed airborne and used the on-board laser-targeting pod to guide in a Typhoon fighter from 41 Squadron RAF to launch Paveway IV precision-guided munitions against the target. This was the first time an RAF Typhoon had dropped live ordnance onto a warship used as a maritime target, and the first time a Royal Navy helicopter had guided the Paveway IV on to its bullseye.
Commander Ed Moss-Ward, Commanding Officer of HMS Westminster, said:
“Atlantic Thunder has demonstrated that UK and US naval and air forces can work together to deliver an end-to-end kill chain against a maritime target at long range. The integration of high-end weapons, sensors and communications with our NATO allies is key to the collective war fighting capability of the Alliance demonstrated by the sinking exercise. The firings have supported the development of the Royal Navy’s targeting and weapon capabilities, and afforded opportunity to conduct realistic training to validate tactics and operating procedures.”
Lieutenant Ross Gallagher of 815 Naval Air Squadron, in command of Westminster’s Wildcat helicopter, said:
“The exercise presented a great opportunity for the Wildcat to showcase the Martlet missile system and to Laser Target Designate for Typhoon dropping Paveway IV.”
The Americans used their own multi-role SM-6 missile launched by destroyer USS Arleigh Burke, before US Air Force F-15E Eagles, assigned to 494th Fighter Squadron, guided several air-to-ground Joint Direct Attack Munitions against ex-USS Boone.
Ok, so the target was hit with Harpoon x3, Martlets, Paveway IV, SM-6 and JDAM missiles. I would have hoped it would have been immobilised and potentially sunk by any one of these weapons. Either the old frigate was exceedingly well armoured, or the weapons used are a bit lightweight.
As I have understood it, ships prepared for SINKEX have all watertight compartments shut and welded and all flammables removed, thereby making it harder to sink/destroy.
Absolutely, what would be the point of the exercise if it went down under 1 hit. Targets like these only come along once in a blue moon.
But no damage control so it kinda evens out.
Frigates aren’t armoured at all, and ships being used for SINKEX are buttoned completely up, such that they can take an absolute pounding for the purposes of research.
In actuality, any one of these weapons would have started fires, leaks and electrical outages which would comfortably achieve a mission kill
The SM-6 is a very interesting weapon.
I believe the OHP class are considered fairly hard to sink for their size/type.
Understand your concern, and the constraints on realistic testing imposed by structure of SINKEX process. Would submit for consideration the proposition that the most operationally valid test of the capabilities of Harpoon class AShM in the modern era, occurred on April 13, 2022, when two RK-360MC Neptune missiles were salvoed into RFS Moskva. Would be perfectly content to recommend a similar NATO exercise to dispatch RFS Marshal Ustinov and/or Varyag, if they are still located w/in the Black Sea, but somewhat concerned that action might arouse the competitive spirit of Mad Vlad and the slobbering Orcs, on the order of… Read more »
Virtually every ship lost to ASM from Sheffield to the Moskva have been abandoned due to fire spreading to missile magazines. Rather the the effect of the explosive.
Exactly, that is why I drew distinction between exercise and wartime op.
The ships was cleared of fuel and ammunition. In operation it would be full of them. It’s quite difficult to sink an empty metal box bit it’s easy to set one on fire that’s full of flammable liquids and bombs. Also look at Bismarck in 1941. The armour never helped a bit but having lots of water tight spaces will keep you afloat. Conversely this is also why the navy uses SSN’s as its primary anti warship tool. A torpedo can break a ships back sinking it instantly a missile can’t do that. The faster the missile the more likely… Read more »
Although you are certainly correct in your assertion that Bismark proved to be difficult to sink, actually thought that you would cite the fate of HMS Hood, the pride of the pre-war RN Home Fleet. But for one extremely unfortunate penetration of the (forward?) magazine…☹️
Bismarck was flooding her magazines, hard to blow up a ship with flooded powder. Hood was very unlucky, crazy underwater shell penetration from a shell not designed to go under water. If you re-plaid the battle of Denmark straight 100 times you would probably have fond Bismarck and Prinz Eugen a smouldering wreck 9 times of 10. The British had twice the firepower and POW was better protected than Bismarck. Rodney made very quick work of Bismarck later on in conjunction with KGV.
…and the coups de grace delivered in the form of two torpedo hits by County class heavy cruiser HMS Dorsetshire (per Wiki).
There you two go now i’m gonna have to watch the film again. 😃 😃
Well said on Rodney. Biggest bugbear with the film Sink the Bismarck is focus on KGV when it was Rodneys fine shooting that did most of the damage. 16inch shells helped too !
The “underwater” shell didn’t have to go far under. Hood’s bow wave very nearly exposed the bottom of her belt armour. An aerial photo taken on the day of the battle shows the extent of the hull exposed.
It’s now safely tied up at Glen Mallen, following the putting out of a minor fire, with the crew enjoying a barbecue and civic reception before casting their vote in the referendum about Russia becoming a region of Scotland.
They would have to swap the Vodka for the Whiskey. 😀
Indeed, but please note Scotch whisky is spelt without the e. Sacrilege!
It wasn’t hit by missiles just a small fire on board due to a sailor smoking in the wrong area. All the crew are safe enjoying dinner at the arrochar hotel🙈 All the footage is propaganda produced by people wanting to destroy our country.
There is a video on Navy Lookout showing it sinking…
Maybe it just suffered a minor fire and is now being towed back to Sev- I mean Scotland.
Maybe we need to have a chat with the French. I think Sheffield went down from a single Exocet. I realise aluminium super structure had a role to play in that, but that’s still very effective.
Hms Sheffield was gutted by fire from the Exocet hit – but she stayed afloat afterwards, in the process of being towed to safely it took in water from a heavy storm which ultimately sank her.
The ship would’ve been prepped to take a pounding in a way an operational ship would not be able to (welded compartments etc).
Ships can stay afloat for some time after a decent pounding though, the USS Stark was struck by two exocets and did not sink.
Damage to electronics probably renders most surface ships combat ineffective after a single strike.
It’s a bit like Colonel Burtons hissyfits after Bradley tests had ammunition replaced by sand. We could have fired on the frigate in fully operational conditions but then you’d not have gotten much out of the test, and only learned that ammunition goes boom.
Paul the Sheff remained floating for 4 days after the 4th May strike by the 4th day she was completely gutted but her Dart and gun mags didn’t go up as the strike was midshipman and above the waterline she kept afloat until choppy Swells took her if a DC party had got back on board and patched up the hole but as the fallen lads were still on board the power that be let her go Also the 21s had an Aluminiun superstructure, 42s were Steel
It was a shame they couldn’t patch the hole and leave her in situ instead of not doing that and tasking HMS Plymouth to tow her to South Georgia. In situ her empty hulk could have absorbed another Exocet or two.
Yeah emotions ran high then Plymouth did her best but too no avail all crypto gear was that wasn’t damaged was retrieved and Plymouth parted company with what is now deemed an official war grave and Lloyd’s of London rang the Lauchins Bell 40 years ago I’m old now those lads are forever young Tim
Sheffield did not had aluminium superstructure. Type 21 had.
Feck me, wouldn’t want to be on board a helicopter lazing a warship for a paveway strike, there are less messy forms of suicide…
Yeah, can’t believe that is even a remotely viable tactic against a neer peer adversary.
Fortunately, the RN and RAF know much more about this stuff then we all do 👍
I think not. A paveway lazed by a helicopter would be state of the art in about 1985. Got to love the headline. Basically this whole exercise shows how fantastically behind the RN and the RAF is in naval surface stike.
Yeah I thought that too, but maybe there were lessons to be learnt from the laser guided aspect. Perhaps paving the way for that role to be undertaken by a drone in future? Just a thought. [email protected]
A stealthy drone, that’s viable, but still brings a scarce expensive aircraft uncomfortably close though to deploy a weapon, even when using a max speed lob rather than overflying the target.
The RAF and fleet air arm need a long range missile, it’s not a luxury, it’s a must! It’s not like the navy has an abundance of options on its surface fleet either.
Anti ship missiles will always be expensive and a task force will always have a limited number of them. The Missiles will be expended first and much if not all will be intercepted by Anti Aircraft missiles which are also expensive and limited. After the initial missile engagement two fleets would likely continue to sail towards each other if both are surviving. Aircraft with precision guided bombs would come next followed by naval artillery. Subs and torpedos first, then missiles, then bombs then guns and following that its boarding actions 😀
That’s what they are practicing here.
Arr, me matey, grapeshot to down the mizzenmast, pistols and cutlasses at the ready, boarding party, ho! 🤔😁
Sod that advanced tec, oars to ramming speed.
I’m sorry in this day and age with defence cuts around Harsh Words are the order of the day
A couple of spuds chucked at the bridge window would get their attention. Then use the wrong pronouns and they’d surrender in no time.
I appreciate the training value, but the FAA RAF badly need an air launched ASM on the Typhoon and F35. Be that SPEAR 3 or other long range types the US and Aus are fielding.
SPEAR will be very handy for F35, not sure longer range anti ship missile is worth it in F35B. We could definitely use something off the shell and cheap for Typhoon like Marte ER although we would then half to start training typhoon pilots in an entire new mission set that they are unlikely to ever use and its a very specialised mission. Remember also we do have ASM capability in the form of P8 which can already take air launched harpoon and soon LRASM. If I was going to spend my precious pounds it would probably be on P8… Read more »
All sensible. Except I feel for the money we are forking out on the entire QEC capability the F35 air group itself needs an ASM. So let’s disregard the Typhoon option.
I get why the RN doesn’t prioritise ASM on escorts so I for one don’t join that clamour. But air launched ASM, yes.
Can P8 use LRASM? Exiting…..😜
Very interesting article regarding the General Electric engine and the F35B. They think they can make it work. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/xa100-next-generation-adaptive-engine-could-now-power-f-35b-too
Wish they’d get on and make BIV work. 🙄
Very good news indeed. Higher thrust may allow F35B to increase bring back rates above F35C now. The extra range will be very welcome. I can see F35B being followed by F35E in British service.
If it can get LRASM on board I would agree. However not sure something shorter range like JSM makes sense. If the F35 B is going to have to get with in 100 miles with no stealth to launch JSM ( under wing pylon) I think it would be more effective to maintain stealth and get in to a 60-70 mile range and launch SPEAR. I then get 8 shots instead of 6, as well as maybe some stand in jamming. Not going to sink a ship like that fast but may be a mission kill even for an entire… Read more »
I think we’re also getting the upgraded Tomahawk which has Ash capability.
Yes all up to Block V standard.
If they then put MK41s on the T45/31/32 as with the T26 and Astutes you’ve got some diverse AShM and land attack capability. Updated and affordable, hopefully.
If SPEAR3 Sead launched fm f-35 works then potentially laser gbu might work?
Long RN practice utilising Lynx to provide additional guidance data to onboard SSM, though.
Yeh, not a good time to be an OHP. They should be queuing at the border by now trying to avoid the draft.
I don’t get the point of using a Harpoon missile from a T23 ? They are about to go out of service so zilch point in learning anything. Unless it was to just use stock up or the RN trying to make a point that we really do need an interim replacement. Also what munition would a US P8 use that weighs 660kg.
I think that was the combined weight of the 2 harpoon that Westminster fired and the 1 harpoon that the P8 fired at 221kg each.
I think you misread; two Harpoon from Westminster and one from the P8, 220kg each.
Guess they have to use the Harpoons for something before it exits service and stocks expire.
I understand they were trialing “kill chains” with Harpoon, i.e. detect, data transfer and decide? At least, navylookout article suggest something like, “using satellites” or alike.
Regardless of the SSM being Harpoon or NSM, there is almost nothing to do after launch. (Yes, NSM has a two-way datalink to change targets on the way, but that option will be used sometimes, and sometimes not).
What to do before launch, is the essential part, I guess?
Yes there was talk of some US satellite targeting system. Would love to know more. Very Tom Clancy.
Bristol and Fife got a mention in the Hunt for the Red October thanks Mr Clancey
In my dreams. I wish we had some
P8 can take them soon just need to buy some from the cousins for a few quid. AUKUS covers their transfer.
It’s more for trading crews. Remember HMS Edinburgh firing off a bunch of sea dart just before decommissioning.
What’s the progress on deploying Sea Venom since CSG21? Should be right up there for Wildcat under the current fast changing threats.
Excellent question, original IOC projected to be (2021?). Weapon or integration issue?
Totally, and no new news on the FC/ASW these days either…
Nice to see the RAF unveiling it’s latest anti ship missile lol, on a serious matter what is supposed to fit inside the F35bs internal weapons hold? I was under the impression that paveway is too large to fit, otherwise it has to use the pylons denying it’s stealth advantage?
F35B can carry Paveway 4 internally and under the wings. 6 in total, plus 2 ASRAAM, and 2 AMRAAM/Meteor.
Well, I suppose if your going to go might as well go out with a bang.
Perhaps the point of us firing two Harpoon missiles is to spread fear and apprehension amongst the Russian fleet. It still kicks ass..that’s the message….? Appreciate firing Martlet at a ‘proper’ target but unless it was to demonstrate pin point accuracy in (say) hitting the bridge not sure what else it shows. Dropping laser guided bombs designated by Wildcat, perhaps a tactic to get more stand-off range? Spear3 please. One Typhoon firing a dozen of them, all hitting from different angles at the same time….now THERE would be a demonstration…. AA
And all it took to sink the pride of the Russian Navy was 2 Ukrainian ASMs. LMAO
It was a 80’s tech ship. The pride of Russian navy should be a Kirov, itself also a 80’s tech – albeit updated.
I thought martlet was only meant for defence against small fast moving craft. What was the purpose of firing these at the hull? Radar or control tower targets etc I could understand but puzzled by the hull. Are they capable of damage to a ship’s hull
Maybe to check if they can do mission kill, like hitting a radar.
This is a bit off topic but did anyone see the warzone article about the F35b getting the GE adaptive engine. Good news if all three variants can have the same engine upgrade.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/xa100-next-generation-adaptive-engine-could-now-power-f-35b-too
Maybe not be the right thread here for this but it’s looking like the F35B is getting the new engine as well.
I also spotted the article. Interesting development. Let’s hope it goes ahead 25% increase in range would be welcome and hopefully this engine doesn’t degrade the stealth coating on after burner. Perhaps even super cruise capability for the F35.
Wonder how much damage martlet did alone.
I might be missing something here but knocking ing the stuffing out a ship like this has some value but in a real live scenario a ship is likely to be able to fight back with its SAM and ECM unless that’s all switched off! . So I’m not sure how successful Harpoon, Paveway and Marlet would be then but good to know that they all work and go bang! There’s no mention of Sea Venom, JSM and Storm Shadow but not sure if the latter was given an AShM capability?
With the US selling 60 Harpoons to Taiwan recently I wonder if the RN will also restock a bit? I guess, it could if needed and same with TLAMs. Its latest block 3C must still be considered effective and will probably be one of the cheaper options compared others?
Forgot the Marte ER. Six on one Typhoon. A lot of bang.
Sorry, i just read that Jim has mentioned this above already.